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 Post subject: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:54 am 
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They have just announced that they are selling in 2018 the rx3 sedans that they sent overseas to be copied some time ago.

https://www.facebook.com/PhilsRotarys/p ... 5731669530

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfKZ1sLFUcE



Discuss.


Last edited by Lukenstein on Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Pretty awesome that this is actually happening after all these years, despite all the naysayers. That said, there's no way these can be legally registered, except perhaps as an "individually constructed vehicle", which means you need to comply with new emissions ADRs. Mazda can't even do that with a rotary. Club permit surely wouldn't apply either because it is not an original car.

This could only be strictly for garage queens and track cars. Unless I'm mistaken?

The parts aspect of course is great, ensuring genuine RX3s can stay on the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:46 pm 
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KYPREO wrote:
Club permit surely wouldn't apply either because it is not an original car.


The club permit scheme in Victoria does have a section for 'replica' vehicles, although I am not totally sure what is and isn't allowed. I believe that is how a lot of cars like AC Cobra replicas are allowed on the road. Otherwise they may be allowed on as Street Rods. Again I am not sure what is and isn't allowed with this.

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Street Rod/Hot Rod rego is pre 1948 in most if not all states.

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Phil's Rotarys: "With regards to registering these new shells, they come with a compliance plate. You won't be able to register one of these shells as a new car, you'll need an existing RX3/808."


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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:23 am 
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KYPREO wrote:
The parts aspect of course is great, ensuring genuine 808s can stay on the road.

Fixed


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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:00 am 
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DABUZZ wrote:
KYPREO wrote:
The parts aspect of course is great, ensuring genuine 808s can stay on the road.

Fixed


Truth!

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Get a Life

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As we are discussing, my opinion is I doubt Phil will be able to produce a shell to Mazda quality standards.
Some of his parts are great some less than average.


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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Going by his comments on FB, Phil seems pretty confident that these body shells will be to the same standard as original Mazda body's.

Without wanting to sound naive, you'd think that before going ahead with such a big undertaking, they'd make sure that these body's could be used on the road legally. Otherwise what would be the point? Sure they could be used for racing purposes but wouldn't that be a limited market compared to people who want a street car?


Keith :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:25 pm 
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He does seem confident. Wonder if KIA were a bit more understanding than Mazda with dies and tooling? Might explain why its sedans and not coupes?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Gra ... .2FK303.29


"South Korea (Kia Brisa II/K303)[edit]
From October 1975 the Grand Familia was built in South Korea by Kia Motors, with the 1272 cc 72 PS (53 kW) engine and four-door bodywork. Originally it was sold as the Brisa II, alongside the smaller Brisa, based on the Familia Presto. The early cars had rectangular lights, but in December 1976 an updated version with single round headlights was introduced, called the Kia K303. A station wagon model of the K303 was added in 1978.[3] Production ended in 1981, when the license expired. As part of a nationwide industrial plan Kia was then excluded from building passenger cars until 1986."

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:25 pm 
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I'd assume that these will be a replacement shell for an existing car. That is you would use the original car's chassis number and re-register (or continue registration) on that car. As Phil states: "You'll need an existing RX3/808."

This is another can of worms, on the ethics of reshelling cars. Though this is the other way around, so it's no help to anyone wanting to rebirth a stolen car. I personally feel that using one of these shells with original chassis number & compliance is ok. There is little difference here with replacing every panel anyway. There has been debate on this in the US where you can actually buy every single panel for some cars such as 55-57 Chevrolets, 1st gen Camaros, Mustangs and so on. The complete shells that are available there are mostly assembled in the US by a different company to the manufacturer of the panels, often the assembler uses panels from a variety of companies to get the complete product together. Point being, you could replace every single panel yourself (or have your local panel beater do it if you don't have the skills) around your original scuttle panel. What's the difference in buying all those panels individually and assembling them one by one onto your original car until all you have left of the original car is the scuttle anyway? End result is the same.

I guess one defining difference is in the US most every car being restored needs floors front to back, we don't seem to suffer this as much here on our cars. Once you add floors into a restoration (on top of quarters, doors, roof, inner structures, etc,) you are basically replacing everything anyway. In an Aussie resto we usually retain more of the original car. This may be because we don't salt our roads for snow so they don't corrode as much requiring as much panel replacement. Or it may be that we don't have access to as many reproduction panels so we patch rather than replace. So in the end we have more of a repair mentality than a replace mentality.

Personally I feel that $15k is a pretty reasonable price for what they are offering. It it is good quality (time will tell), I would have no real issue in using one myself if I had a basketcase vehicle that I wanted to restore. Or a genuine scuttle panel gathering dust.

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:33 pm 
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yes you bring up a great point of discussion that i also found interesting a little while ago..

Savannarx3 wrote:
That poses an interesting question, Shane. How much of the bodywork (as in non-bolt on panels) can you replace and still claim it to be the original car? In the states the general consensus is that if the firewall is retained (with the VIN), then everything else (floor, roof, rear quarters and so on) can be replaced and you still have the original car.

Could the new owner claim that he replaced every part of the car except the scuttle, and still call it a genuine R100? It's a number job by any other name. I have a bare scuttle panel with numbers and plates off an S124A RX-3 in Australia. Pics of the car it came off are in this thread. Could I rebuild this scuttle by replacing every part that surrounds it with "parts off my 808 coupe" (ie everything except the scuttle) and call it an RX-3?

Discuss.


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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Is it legal to cut numbers out of a car and put into one of Phils shells?


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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:51 pm 
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No it's not legal.

Speaking to a friend in RMS who works with right-offs and car ID's. Stated to me that you may get it rego'ed but you would have to comply to ICV. That would mean all the new ADR's and then commented but some will just make it through. If you do a number job, once you register it then you can be an offence. Selling a number job is an offence too. You will loose the car if it found to be and rebirth.

I would be surprised if most people won't be able to pick these new shells. So if you know what you want, you will buy what you want.


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 Post subject: Re: Phils Rotaries - RX3 sedans being reproduced in 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:14 pm 
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when you could still buy new body shells from the factory, these were known as a body in white. Some body's like Commodores would come with a new partially VIN on the floor under the drivers seat and start with xxxxxxx.
This practice has since been made illegal and insurance companies stopped using this process to repair insurance jobs.
When you have a vehicle like a 4wd where there is a chassis and body, swapping a body with another body, legally you need to apply for a surrogate VIN ( in QLD ) because the stamped VIN in the chassis would not match the compliance plate on the body. It is illegal to remove and attach compliance plates from 1 body to another. The process of applying for a surrogate requires an inspection of the vehicle by the police and then the vehicle standards department approving it.
So with Phils proposed new body shells, if the new shell has no body number ( I know Phil has stated it comes with a compliance plate from whom and what it says we don't know, but cars can be registered without compliance plates but not without a stamped body number ) the best it could hope for, would be to be allowed a surrogate VIN. As stated, the process of removing the stamped VIN from the original body into the new shell, or even stamping the new shell with the old numbers is illegal, and if caught, the vehicle could be seized and either destroyed by the police.


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